AN INTERVIEW WITH AVALON WATERWAYS PRESIDENT PATRICK CLARK
*originally published in Cruise and Travel Lifestyles, Fall 2011
By Tin Thomas
Let’s talk first about the incredibly fast rate at which Avalon Waterways has been growing. How big is your fleet now?
We have 11 ships in Europe, and we have plans to continue building. Since we entered the European river cruising industry in 2004 it has been growing on average a compound 10 percent per year right through some of the difficult economic periods. That requires an average of a ship and a half a year just to keep up and we’ve been growing in passenger volume bigger and faster than the industry average of 10 percent.
How many ships do you now have under construction and under order for the future?
We’ve got two in the yard at the moment – that’s two of the 11 that I referred to - which will be delivered in 2012. While we haven’t made a final commitment we would expect at least one more ship in 2013 and we are now looking at 2014, so assuming the growth and the demand continues we will certainly add to the fleet. River cruising is one of those travel styles that’s hot at the moment, it’s in the right place with the whole baby boomer group now coming into a more mature time of life and wanting to travel in ever increasing numbers. The river cruise product certainly fits that lifestyle and we are finding it very rewarding.
What are the problems river cruise operators have in trying to differentiate their product and their ships because due to tight restrictions on size in Europe so many vessels are so similar in many respects?
It is a challenge. We looked very carefully at what we believe in our opinion would be the best for our guests and we have talked to our customers and got much inspiration from them. Because of the docks and the bridges, ship height and length and width are limited. We all have the same space if we expect to go through the canals, particularly on the Main-Danube. So with that restriction of about 11 ½ meters in width and seven meters in height, 35 in length, everything has to fit. Essentially you can get two staterooms side by side in that 11 ½ meters width and provide a walkway to meet safety requirements. If you put a balcony in you take the space from the living area. Our view was that we can better use that space so it’s available 24/7 and add a wall of glass that opens for seven feet to create the indoor balcony effect and capture some nice space to add additional chairs and an area where people can enjoy beverages and sit while they do it. We then redesigned the bathrooms to have beds facing the windows. This is also very rare. So we’ve provided a space which we think has a balcony effect by bringing the outside in, provided a sitting area that can even include in-room dining and then by turning the bed to face the window, wherever you are in this stateroom you have a panoramic view. We felt that would be a better and more enriching experience for guests. No matter where they are on the ship, in their stateroom, up on the sundeck, even in the lounges or restaurant you have wonderful viewing. Travelers have embraced balconies on big ships because they make sense; it’s less so in river cruising and if you have a balcony you lose living space so we chose to go the other way and provide a clear and distinct choice for the guest.
The most popular rivers in Europe for cruising are the Rhine and the Danube. What are you doing to provide fresh experiences for repeat guests - on, let’s say the Rhine - who don’t want yet another visit to Rudesheim or Cologne or Coblenz?
Well we are all enjoying repeat travelers but fortunately there are a lot of other rivers that people can try. For example they’ll take a trip on the Moselle, or one that includes the Main. They’ll try the Rhone or the Seine. On the Rhine and the Danube, we’re all looking at different stretches, for example we have introduced Basel to Vienna which involves the Lower Rhine then adds the Main River. We’re looking at changing some of the Danube itineraries to have different city pairs, different days of the week. I know that some of our competitors are looking at new embarkation points such as Cologne. We’re all looking at how we can re-arrange itineraries anditineraries and sail different days of the week which may also allowalso allow for different port stops. I, for example, am a big fan of the Moselle and we are increasingly including this river in our Rhine itineraries from Amsterdam. Adding lengths or adding Paris as a pre- or post-stay is another possibility. But the traditional Amsterdam – Basel cruise on the Rhine is still one of the most popular river cruise experiences and I think for years to come it will continue to be that way. We’ll continue to look for other rivers and for river combinations.
Is your ship on the Mekong operating yet?
It won’t be delivered until next summer with the first departure in September. We’re quite excited about that, it’s a whole different style of ship that we’re having built in Vietnam. It’s going to be a small ship with 16 staterooms - just 32 guests. It will have the same large staterooms that are synonymous with Avalon – 170 sq.ft. at a minimum. A small vessel was chosen because it allows the ship to sail from the heart of Saigon all the way to the outskirts of Siem Reap in Cambodia. That will be unique because our competitors have larger vessels which can carry more people and provide different experiences but they are limited as to how far they can navigate these rivers. They can not navigate into Saigon nor for most of the year through Tonle Sap, so it means transfers - 1½ to 3,4,5 hours. This is why we went for a low capacity ship yet still providing all of those onboard amenities… it’s almost going to be more like a private yacht. It will have a restaurant, lecturers, we’ll offer wine or beer with dinner – all the things one would expect on any Avalon cruise. We’ll have crew that will be Burmese, Cambodian and Vietnamese who work well together and bring an interesting cultural mix for our guests.
I know you are also planning for Nile cruising, are you considering any other countries?
We have a partner and sail on the Yangtze, we have a small vessel in the Galapagos. I‘m looking at other areas to find a ship that we’re satisfied with. The Volga is probably at the top of the list and an area we’ll spend some time focusing on. Depending on how things go on the Mekong there are other areas in that part of the world that deserve some consideration. Borneo is an area I think could be intriguing and Myanmar and the Irawaddy River is a fascinating area, although there are some political issues. There are lots of areas that are going to develop as river cruise travelers seek more interesting and unique itineraries. And of course there’s the Amazon.
Let’s talk about onboard speakers or lecturers. I can understand a speaker drawing an attentive full house on an ocean cruise during a day at sea but on a river boat there’s always something to see or do outside the ship. Is this too much of a distraction?
I think it varies. For example, we’ve got a U.N. diplomat who will sail on one of our itineraries, probably from Nuremberg in 2012. He has not only been at the U.N. he’s been a U.S. diplomat at embassies in Europe, and has also worked with the European Union and his expertise is history and politics, particularly in central Europe. He will do four lectures in a week. They’ll be at times that don’t conflict with the excursions we have planned that day. Then he and his wife will be available socially on the ship. They’ll have dinner with our guests, a drink at the bar or a coffee up on the sundeck and just engage them in conversation. When we have a wine theme cruise we can bring a wine expert on board for a couple of days to give some lectures.
I realize that river boats cannot provide the facilities for children that ocean going ships can. Do you think that river cruising is a viable option for families and multi-generational families?
Eight years is the minimum age we allow on board, an age where children are getting into some academic years and can appreciate the history and culture we have to offer. Since we dock in the heart of cities they can take off to a local café and hang out with their contemporaries in another country which would be an enjoyable experience. Then there are opportunities for families to have time together. In today’s world, families particularly with teenagers,teenagers don’t see each other. Parents are working, kids are at school. This is a time they can be together. There are no facilities to provide interest for young children and we don’t have space for baby sitting areas. But it’s definitely a family opportunity for the older child and it’s an ideal multi-generational option.
How important do you think it is to provide guests with dishes typical of the region through which they are traveling. Do you get a demand for this?
Increasingly, and one we listen carefully to. Many guests would like to sample some of those local specialties that various regions are known for, particularly regions that are high on the culinary list, like France. We want to provide choices so that on a typical menu there’ll be three main courses and we try to include one chef’s special or one dish included from the local area. For backup we also provide standing availability of salmon and chicken. We are definitely including more local produce and chef’s choices that connect with local specialties. We’ll give people choices but we are unlikely to have a menu that’s dominated by local produce because not everybody is accustomed to it or desires it. By having some balance we can appeal to those who want to experience ‘local’ and still appeal to people who want a less ambitious diet. In 2012 we’ll be getting more local with the wines, really emphasizing more of them.
Looking at the incredible surge in popularity of river cruising in recent years, do you think this interest will continue?
I do. Canada is a great example for us. We’ll probably end 2011 30% up over the year before from Canada. The early 2012 reservations are coming in and they are 64 % up over 2011. It’s demographically driven. The 50-65 year age group is the sweet spot, and we even have an audience beyond 65 and I’m convinced that river cruising allows customers to travel longer because it is an easy way to go. It really allows people who maybe have limited mobility to travel longer or older people who are not as comfortable with brisk walking. We tailor the excursions so that there’s something that is a bit more moderately paced. There are about 15 million big ship cruises taken a year from western markets alone. Look at the river cruise component – 340,000. A majority of those big ship cruisers have expressed an interest in small ship cruising. Big ship cruise lines have developed an awareness of cruising that has helped river cruising as people look for alternatives – four out of five of our customers are big ship cruisers. They won’t abandon big ship cruising but they will integrate the experiences because they enjoy the intimacy and all the other things river cruising provides. I’m confident that the growth for years and years to come will continue to be strong, simply because the pool of prospects is so huge.
Do you think that this growth could cause the industry to reach a saturation point in the number of ships on the popular rivers?
That is a very good question and it’s one I don’t think there’s 100 percent agreement on. Generally speaking less than 10 percent of traffic on the rivers is passenger traffic, the rest is commercial … barges. Certainly the rivers can cope with a lot more traffic. Docking at a small city on the Danube in the middle of peak season is going to become more congested as more ships come on so I think the response will be that small villages or cities will add more docking locations, a little further out. Departure times often are around weekends to facilitate vacations and things like that but increasingly you are going to see departures on different days of the week. For instance if five ships leave Amsterdam on Sunday they are all going to arrive at Rudesheim at the same time. But five ships with departures on five different days will arrive in Rudesheim on different days. I think there’s a lot of room on the existing rivers to get more creative and allow for expansion and growth without overcrowding.
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